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[email protected]
.At 04:38 AM 5/28/2012, [email protected] wrote:
Dear Khalilur,
Since I am fasting and praying today, I thought I'd take the time to respond to what you wrote in previous emails that I hadn't yet specifically replied to.
You wrote:
Now I will reply to the last portion of yourreply. You said in Colossians 1: 17-20: it isclearly saying that Jesus is the Creator, who isGod and that the Father is also God. This is theclaim by the people who wrote Collosians afterJesus. Jesus never said that he is the creator.It is no where in Old Testament also that Jesus is the Creator.
My reply: In John 8:58& 59 Jesus said: "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
Why did the Religious people pick up stones to throw at Jesus here? It was because He claimed divinity. He said 'before Abraham was, I AM'. All Jews know that ONLY God is I AM. Only God could have been 'before Abraham was'. There is no question that Jesus equated Himself with God.
It is the reason the Jews ultimately killed Him....John 5:18 : "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God."
I think you would agree that ONLY God is the Creator. Therefore, JESUS DID CLAIM TO BE THE CREATOR.
OK, now for part 2 to your question: The Old Testament. You say there is no where in the Old Testament that Jesus is the Creator. Let's look.
Isaiah 44: 6,7,8 and 24 say: ""Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God." And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them. Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.' " 24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;"
OK, obviously, this scripture is talking about God, the Creator. However, it is also obvious that is speaks of Jesus. Where? Look at the first verse: "Thus says the LORD......and His redeemer, the LORD of hosts. The word LORD in the Bible is the great I AM, or YHWH (Jehovah in English Bibles). So, this reads, Thus says Jehovah and His redeemer, Jehovah of hosts.....
I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST, BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD.
OK, again, obviously this is GOD.
Okay, now for your second question:
You said Jesus called Himself the Son of man, not the Son of God and that He was sent FROM God, (so you are implying that He couldn't be God if He was sent from God).
My answer: Why not? Why can't Jesus say that God sent Him and He still be the very God who sent Him? The Lord talks about Himself this way throughout the Old Testament. I, being an actually child of the living God, knows this for I read His word every day. You, who choose not to follow Jehovah, but Allah, can only search the scriptures hoping to find something to disprove the Bible itself. I cannot help you if you do not want help.
I am sorry to be so blunt, but you make it clear that you do not believe in the God of Abaraham, father of the Jews, but believe that Abraham is the father of your faith, Islam and that Mohammed is the Prophet that Jesus said would come. So, you aren't asking questions to learn, but to instruct and you cannot do so, because you do not know God.
If you wish to convert me to Islam, then show me in the Qur’an that your God is the true and living God. You will never be able to convince me by the Bible. I know it far better than you, for I know the Author personally.
You see, I will not be saved on the day of judgment. The reason for this, is because I have ALREADY passed from death to life. My judgment is passed. Jesus took upon Himself the penalty for my sins.
Does this give me license to sin? Of course not! Anyone who is born of God cannot continue in the same habitual sins that had before, because they are now a new creation! They are born again. Born of God. God does not sin, so His children will not practice sin! They may fall on occasion, for they are not yet in Heaven, in their glorified state, but they are, never the less, His children and they are being transformed from glory to glory into the image of the Son, Jesus Christ.
Ok, on to your next question:
You wrote:
I think Christians also did not understand this phrase.Jesus already clarified it in John 6: 35-36. Whoso ever believe in Jesus, he gets that bread oflife & does not have thirst &hunger. He will belifted alive on Final Day ( John 6: 40).. So,eating of flesh & blood means accepting Jesus in
totality & follow his teachings.
My answer: Not bad! I almost agree with you. Yes, eating His flesh and drinking His blood is obviously not literal. It speaks of accepting His death on the cross as that which gives you new life. And, as He said at the last supper, Take, eat, this is my body....take eat, this is my blood.
So, it's our acceptance of His sacrifice that gives us new life. By belieiving, we are taking of His body and His blood and we are born again, having received the Holy Spirit of God, we now are new creatures in Christ and we begin to naturally do the things of God, for we are now His children.
Dear Khalilur,
Since I am fasting and praying today, I thought I'd take the time to respond to what you wrote in previous emails that I hadn't yet specifically replied to.
You wrote:
Now I will reply to the last portion of yourreply. You said in Colossians 1: 17-20: it isclearly saying that Jesus is the Creator, who isGod and that the Father is also God. This is theclaim by the people who wrote Collosians afterJesus. Jesus never said that he is the creator.It is no where in Old Testament also that Jesus is the Creator.
My reply: In John 8:58& 59 Jesus said: "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
Why did the Religious people pick up stones to throw at Jesus here? It was because He claimed divinity. He said 'before Abraham was, I AM'. All Jews know that ONLY God is I AM. Only God could have been 'before Abraham was'. There is no question that Jesus equated Himself with God.
It is the reason the Jews ultimately killed Him....John 5:18 : "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God."
I think you would agree that ONLY God is the Creator. Therefore, JESUS DID CLAIM TO BE THE CREATOR.
OK, now for part 2 to your question: The Old Testament. You say there is no where in the Old Testament that Jesus is the Creator. Let's look.
Isaiah 44: 6,7,8 and 24 say: ""Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God." And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them. Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.' " 24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;"
OK, obviously, this scripture is talking about God, the Creator. However, it is also obvious that is speaks of Jesus. Where? Look at the first verse: "Thus says the LORD......and His redeemer, the LORD of hosts. The word LORD in the Bible is the great I AM, or YHWH (Jehovah in English Bibles). So, this reads, Thus says Jehovah and His redeemer, Jehovah of hosts.....
I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST, BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD.
OK, again, obviously this is GOD.
Okay, now for your second question:
You said Jesus called Himself the Son of man, not the Son of God and that He was sent FROM God, (so you are implying that He couldn't be God if He was sent from God).
My answer: Why not? Why can't Jesus say that God sent Him and He still be the very God who sent Him? The Lord talks about Himself this way throughout the Old Testament. I, being an actually child of the living God, knows this for I read His word every day. You, who choose not to follow Jehovah, but Allah, can only search the scriptures hoping to find something to disprove the Bible itself. I cannot help you if you do not want help.
I am sorry to be so blunt, but you make it clear that you do not believe in the God of Abaraham, father of the Jews, but believe that Abraham is the father of your faith, Islam and that Mohammed is the Prophet that Jesus said would come. So, you aren't asking questions to learn, but to instruct and you cannot do so, because you do not know God.
If you wish to convert me to Islam, then show me in the Qur’an that your God is the true and living God. You will never be able to convince me by the Bible. I know it far better than you, for I know the Author personally.
You see, I will not be saved on the day of judgment. The reason for this, is because I have ALREADY passed from death to life. My judgment is passed. Jesus took upon Himself the penalty for my sins.
Does this give me license to sin? Of course not! Anyone who is born of God cannot continue in the same habitual sins that had before, because they are now a new creation! They are born again. Born of God. God does not sin, so His children will not practice sin! They may fall on occasion, for they are not yet in Heaven, in their glorified state, but they are, never the less, His children and they are being transformed from glory to glory into the image of the Son, Jesus Christ.
Ok, on to your next question:
You wrote:
I think Christians also did not understand this phrase.Jesus already clarified it in John 6: 35-36. Whoso ever believe in Jesus, he gets that bread oflife & does not have thirst &hunger. He will belifted alive on Final Day ( John 6: 40).. So,eating of flesh & blood means accepting Jesus in
totality & follow his teachings.
My answer: Not bad! I almost agree with you. Yes, eating His flesh and drinking His blood is obviously not literal. It speaks of accepting His death on the cross as that which gives you new life. And, as He said at the last supper, Take, eat, this is my body....take eat, this is my blood.
So, it's our acceptance of His sacrifice that gives us new life. By belieiving, we are taking of His body and His blood and we are born again, having received the Holy Spirit of God, we now are new creatures in Christ and we begin to naturally do the things of God, for we are now His children.
KHALILUR RAHMAN
You said you are fasting today. Can you please tell me how is the way of your fasting . I will tell you about our fasting. Every year, we have compulsory fasting of 1 month continuous. Every Muslim has to fast during this month. Our fasting starts from 2 hours before sunrise & ends at sunset. During fasting, we do not eat or drink at all. Even a drop of water is not allowed. No sex at all even with wife & try to avoid all types of sin. This month we do maximum charity. Minimum is 2.5% of our savings. And we have special charity on Eid day. This is in short about fasting.
You have quoted John 8:58-59 to prove that Jesus is equal to God & so he is also the creator of this universe. You please read the whole chapter & you will find that no where Jesus said that he is God. Rather the whole chapter is confusing & ambiguous. No clear-cut answer is there. "Pharisees asked him- Where is your Father? ( John 8:19)" . Jesus did not give any clear reply. He replied- “You do not know me, so you do not know my father...." He should have clearly told them- My Father is in the heaven or something like that. You also read John 8:25. They asked Jesus- Who are you? Again Jesus did not reply clearly. He should have replied, I am God or I am Christ or I am son of God or I am a Messenger of God or something clear-cut like that. But he said- " I am that whatever I am telling from the beginning. There are many things to judge me. Who has sent me, there is no untruth in Him. I tell you only those things which I hear from Him." What was the question & what is the reply. It made people more confused. Now see again- "Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Here please note that the Jews are begging to him to reply in clear language whether he is Christ or not. But Jesus did not give any clear reply. Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me." Have you seen that there is no clear-cut answer for anything. People got more confused .This type of examples are many & many in New Testament. Old Testament is much more clear in their statement. I do not know what is the reason for it. May be the writers of New Testament could not understand Jesus properly & could not clarify what Jesus said. May be the original script has been modified, edited, interpolated & changed to such an extent that it has lost its clarity. Or Jesus himself did not want to expose his identity fully because his actual mission yet to start. His real mission will start from the day he comes back again. Please read the following verses:
John 6:14-15 Seeing the miracles of Jesus people said- " He is truly that Prophet who is supposed to come to this world". Jesus realized that the people are coming to catch him to make their king forcefully. So, he slipped off & went back to mountain alone himself.
People wanted to make him king. It was not their fault because it was predicted like that in their scripture. But Jesus knew that time has not come yet. It will come true during his 2nd coming. So he was avoiding the crowd & did not disclose his identity fully as Christ. Paul & others took this opportunity of confusion & tried to equate many things to prove that Jesus is God. But a man with common sense will not accept your equation. It is a very bad mathematics.
Yes, I agree that ONLY GOD IS A CREATOR. Jesus is NOT a creator because he is NOT a God. Whatever you have quoted from Old Testament, those are all about One Supreme God. BESIDES HIM THERE IS NO GOD. So, Adam is not God, Abraham is not God, Moses is not God, Jesus is not God, Mohammad is not God. There is no god except Him. This is the concept of Old Testament. They are all about One Real God. They are not about Jesus.
You are quoting from Revelation. But remember, it is the Vision seen by John in his subconscious mind. Some of it may be true, some may not be true. The explanation of this vision also may differ person to person. This type of prediction is made by Nostradamus, by Jane Dickson & many others. I do not know why this type of visions are included in Bible? However, I also want to discuss about Revelation at a later date.
I did not give any quotations from Qur’an, because you do not know Qur'an. I wanted to show you from your own scripture that how misguided you are.
You said a real Christian also do righteous deeds. But what is your standard of right & wrong? For example, if you kiss a girl on the street of Europe, it is not an offence. But if you do the same thing in India, you commit an offence & you will be punished for public nuisance. So you need a standard. Laws & Commandments give that standard
You have quoted John 8:58-59 to prove that Jesus is equal to God & so he is also the creator of this universe. You please read the whole chapter & you will find that no where Jesus said that he is God. Rather the whole chapter is confusing & ambiguous. No clear-cut answer is there. "Pharisees asked him- Where is your Father? ( John 8:19)" . Jesus did not give any clear reply. He replied- “You do not know me, so you do not know my father...." He should have clearly told them- My Father is in the heaven or something like that. You also read John 8:25. They asked Jesus- Who are you? Again Jesus did not reply clearly. He should have replied, I am God or I am Christ or I am son of God or I am a Messenger of God or something clear-cut like that. But he said- " I am that whatever I am telling from the beginning. There are many things to judge me. Who has sent me, there is no untruth in Him. I tell you only those things which I hear from Him." What was the question & what is the reply. It made people more confused. Now see again- "Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Here please note that the Jews are begging to him to reply in clear language whether he is Christ or not. But Jesus did not give any clear reply. Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me." Have you seen that there is no clear-cut answer for anything. People got more confused .This type of examples are many & many in New Testament. Old Testament is much more clear in their statement. I do not know what is the reason for it. May be the writers of New Testament could not understand Jesus properly & could not clarify what Jesus said. May be the original script has been modified, edited, interpolated & changed to such an extent that it has lost its clarity. Or Jesus himself did not want to expose his identity fully because his actual mission yet to start. His real mission will start from the day he comes back again. Please read the following verses:
John 6:14-15 Seeing the miracles of Jesus people said- " He is truly that Prophet who is supposed to come to this world". Jesus realized that the people are coming to catch him to make their king forcefully. So, he slipped off & went back to mountain alone himself.
People wanted to make him king. It was not their fault because it was predicted like that in their scripture. But Jesus knew that time has not come yet. It will come true during his 2nd coming. So he was avoiding the crowd & did not disclose his identity fully as Christ. Paul & others took this opportunity of confusion & tried to equate many things to prove that Jesus is God. But a man with common sense will not accept your equation. It is a very bad mathematics.
Yes, I agree that ONLY GOD IS A CREATOR. Jesus is NOT a creator because he is NOT a God. Whatever you have quoted from Old Testament, those are all about One Supreme God. BESIDES HIM THERE IS NO GOD. So, Adam is not God, Abraham is not God, Moses is not God, Jesus is not God, Mohammad is not God. There is no god except Him. This is the concept of Old Testament. They are all about One Real God. They are not about Jesus.
You are quoting from Revelation. But remember, it is the Vision seen by John in his subconscious mind. Some of it may be true, some may not be true. The explanation of this vision also may differ person to person. This type of prediction is made by Nostradamus, by Jane Dickson & many others. I do not know why this type of visions are included in Bible? However, I also want to discuss about Revelation at a later date.
I did not give any quotations from Qur’an, because you do not know Qur'an. I wanted to show you from your own scripture that how misguided you are.
You said a real Christian also do righteous deeds. But what is your standard of right & wrong? For example, if you kiss a girl on the street of Europe, it is not an offence. But if you do the same thing in India, you commit an offence & you will be punished for public nuisance. So you need a standard. Laws & Commandments give that standard