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[email protected] wrote:
12:02 PM 6/7/2012, [email protected] wrote:
Dear Khalilur,
This is the way the verse you quoted is written in the New King James Version:
Isaiah 11:1-4
"There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots. The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. His delight is in the fear of the LORD, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears; But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked."
I believe you rightly pointed out that this verse is speaking of Jesus. And how the Holy Spirit would rest upon Him and He would have wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
Notice that this same Jesus will " strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.".
This same Jesus is the one before whom all mankind will stand and give an account for their lives. For He will return as the judge of the whole earth.
This is what the Bible teaches, do you agree?
Dear Khalilur,
This is the way the verse you quoted is written in the New King James Version:
Isaiah 11:1-4
"There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots. The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. His delight is in the fear of the LORD, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears; But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked."
I believe you rightly pointed out that this verse is speaking of Jesus. And how the Holy Spirit would rest upon Him and He would have wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
Notice that this same Jesus will " strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.".
This same Jesus is the one before whom all mankind will stand and give an account for their lives. For He will return as the judge of the whole earth.
This is what the Bible teaches, do you agree?
KHALILUR RAHMAN
This is the example of how whimsically you people translate the Bible in English. Every Tom & Harry translating it as per his concept & requirement. There is no standard at all because no original text is available. My Bible, while translating this portion, has stressed on the phrase Fear-of-God . He has used all capital letters as I showed here. If you apply this passage for Jesus, note that he will have Fear-of-God instilled in him & he will be delighted & joyful by his Fear-of-God. Here, very easily you can judge the status of Jesus compared to God Almighty. This teaching of Bible is for you people also. Have Fear of God as Jesus had & judge people with Justice & righteousness.
[email protected] wrote:
At 10:47 AM 6/7/2012, [email protected] wrote:
Dear Khalilur,
I did not say that they would not go to heaven, I said I am not God, so I do not know who will go to heaven.I am not the judge. Are you able to say who will go to heaven?
As for the sins of the father, that's completely irrelevant anyway.Why? Because EVERYONE sins.
Now, I MUST make a point. You keep quoting the Bible, yet you TOTALLY reject the Bible as the Word of God.You are being intellectually dishonest by using some of the Bible, yet rejecting other portions.Either it is the Word of God, or NOT. You can't have it both ways.
OK, as to your question: sure the scriptures DO say in Ezekiel 18 what you say it says, that God will hold each person accountable for their own sin and not those of their father. However, you must consider what the Lord has previously said and read, IN CONTEXT when He was speaking through Ezekiel, to whom He was speaking and why. Ezekiel was sent to the Jews who were rebelling against God.
The following is the appearance of the Lord to Moses:
"And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth," - (Exd 34:6 NKJV)
""keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation."" - (Exd 34:7 NKJV)
Obviously the Lord DOES visit the iniquity of the fathers on their children, grand children and even great-grand children!
Here is an awesome portion of scripture where the LORD deals with the idea of the children being responsible for the sins of their fathers and how the LORD would deal with this issue:
Jeremiah 31: 29-34 "In those days they shall say no more: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.'" -"But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge." -"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will makea new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
Here we have the LORD declaring His NEW Covenant. This is the Covenant that Jesus spoke of at His last supper.
(Here's the actual verse in Matthew (not Paul), where Jesus spoke of the New Covenant.:
Matthew: 26:26-28 : "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."" Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
You often quote Jesus when you write. Here Jesus said that He shed His blood for the remission of sins.Was He lying? Was this verse NOT the Word of God, but the others were?You must either completely reject the Bible and the Jesus of the Bible, or you must completely accept the Bible and the Jesus of the Bible.
Dear Khalilur,
I did not say that they would not go to heaven, I said I am not God, so I do not know who will go to heaven.I am not the judge. Are you able to say who will go to heaven?
As for the sins of the father, that's completely irrelevant anyway.Why? Because EVERYONE sins.
Now, I MUST make a point. You keep quoting the Bible, yet you TOTALLY reject the Bible as the Word of God.You are being intellectually dishonest by using some of the Bible, yet rejecting other portions.Either it is the Word of God, or NOT. You can't have it both ways.
OK, as to your question: sure the scriptures DO say in Ezekiel 18 what you say it says, that God will hold each person accountable for their own sin and not those of their father. However, you must consider what the Lord has previously said and read, IN CONTEXT when He was speaking through Ezekiel, to whom He was speaking and why. Ezekiel was sent to the Jews who were rebelling against God.
The following is the appearance of the Lord to Moses:
"And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth," - (Exd 34:6 NKJV)
""keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation."" - (Exd 34:7 NKJV)
Obviously the Lord DOES visit the iniquity of the fathers on their children, grand children and even great-grand children!
Here is an awesome portion of scripture where the LORD deals with the idea of the children being responsible for the sins of their fathers and how the LORD would deal with this issue:
Jeremiah 31: 29-34 "In those days they shall say no more: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.'" -"But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge." -"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will makea new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
Here we have the LORD declaring His NEW Covenant. This is the Covenant that Jesus spoke of at His last supper.
(Here's the actual verse in Matthew (not Paul), where Jesus spoke of the New Covenant.:
Matthew: 26:26-28 : "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."" Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
You often quote Jesus when you write. Here Jesus said that He shed His blood for the remission of sins.Was He lying? Was this verse NOT the Word of God, but the others were?You must either completely reject the Bible and the Jesus of the Bible, or you must completely accept the Bible and the Jesus of the Bible.
KHALILUR RAHMAN
God has confirmed that all His Messengers will go to Heaven. God has also confirmed that 10 companions of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) will go to heaven. I do not know about you & me. But I hope that I will go to heaven, Insha-Allah.
Every body does not do sin. All infants are born innocent & sinless. They may commit sin when they are adult. Qur'an & Bible confirms that John, the Baptist, never did sin during his whole life.
As I said before, Bible is a mixture. It has words of God, it has words of Messengers of God, it has words of the Pharisees & other priests, it contains the research & explanation of Paul & other Saints When it is translated by different people, it has lost its originality & become the supporter of the concept of its translators. So, you have to filter out which one is God's word & which one is interpolated. That is why it has so much contradictions& you have to find out the hidden meanings to establish your concept.
You have quoted from Exodus 34:6-7. If you read further you will see that God is talking to Moses before making a covenant with the people of Israel. God said, if you do not follow this covenant, the adverse result will fall on you, on your children & even on your grandchildren. Later on we see that it is happening to them. When the Jews disobeyed the order to enter a city, God made them roaming in the desert for 40 years, thus suffered their children & grandchildren. After that they could enter a city.
You have quoted from Jeremiah 31:29-34. Again read Jeremiah 31:30. It says- "Each person will pay for his own sin. You eat green apple, you are the one to get sick". It is so clearly mentioned here that nobody can pay for your sin. You have to pay for your own sin. So, Jesus cannot pay for your sin. You will be responsible for your sin.
In Jeremiah 31:29-34, God said that He is going to make a brand new Covenant with Israel & Judah. You are claiming that it is Jesus who made a new covenant. Jesus did not abrogate the Covenant of Moses & did not give any new covenant. He informed the people that the time is approaching for God's kingdom & for a new covenant. He warned people to remain vigilance for God's Kingdom. But he did not establish the God's Kingdom himself, neither he gave any new covenant. It is the Prophet of Islam who has established the Kingdom of God & God has given a brand new covenant through him. When Jesus will come back again, he will follow this new covenant of Islam and rule this kingdom of God as a Muslim. If you read Revelation very analytically, you will find out all these facts.
Every body does not do sin. All infants are born innocent & sinless. They may commit sin when they are adult. Qur'an & Bible confirms that John, the Baptist, never did sin during his whole life.
As I said before, Bible is a mixture. It has words of God, it has words of Messengers of God, it has words of the Pharisees & other priests, it contains the research & explanation of Paul & other Saints When it is translated by different people, it has lost its originality & become the supporter of the concept of its translators. So, you have to filter out which one is God's word & which one is interpolated. That is why it has so much contradictions& you have to find out the hidden meanings to establish your concept.
You have quoted from Exodus 34:6-7. If you read further you will see that God is talking to Moses before making a covenant with the people of Israel. God said, if you do not follow this covenant, the adverse result will fall on you, on your children & even on your grandchildren. Later on we see that it is happening to them. When the Jews disobeyed the order to enter a city, God made them roaming in the desert for 40 years, thus suffered their children & grandchildren. After that they could enter a city.
You have quoted from Jeremiah 31:29-34. Again read Jeremiah 31:30. It says- "Each person will pay for his own sin. You eat green apple, you are the one to get sick". It is so clearly mentioned here that nobody can pay for your sin. You have to pay for your own sin. So, Jesus cannot pay for your sin. You will be responsible for your sin.
In Jeremiah 31:29-34, God said that He is going to make a brand new Covenant with Israel & Judah. You are claiming that it is Jesus who made a new covenant. Jesus did not abrogate the Covenant of Moses & did not give any new covenant. He informed the people that the time is approaching for God's kingdom & for a new covenant. He warned people to remain vigilance for God's Kingdom. But he did not establish the God's Kingdom himself, neither he gave any new covenant. It is the Prophet of Islam who has established the Kingdom of God & God has given a brand new covenant through him. When Jesus will come back again, he will follow this new covenant of Islam and rule this kingdom of God as a Muslim. If you read Revelation very analytically, you will find out all these facts.